This is The Title

nowhere special, i always wanted to go there
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Some free advice for Mr Wolber from the cruise fucking critic Community

Post by iamheisenberg » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:26 am

Will this be removed for being off-topic?
Just Plain Jazz;54142543 wrote:I thought the joke was based on your 'uncertainty principle'. We can either know the question or the answer, but not both
Knockers are jokes that require precision and certainty. Please do not draw any conclusions about my current Knocker until you have read it in its entirety.

Both the Uncertainly Principle and the first Knocker originate from the late 1920s. (Look it up!) This is not a coincidence. We all know that the Germanic peoples, generally, and Germans, specifically, appreciate good Knockers. Perhaps it was Heisenberg, himself, who first told this:

Knock, Knock.
Who is there?
Werner who?.
Werner fashion sits. Puttin' on the Ritz.

Or, perhaps that was Irving Berlin.

In the 1930s, an Austrian physicist (which is not surprising because Wieners and Knockers often go hand in hand) wrote:

Knock, Knock.
Who is there?
Mycat who?
Mycat is dead. (To be followed immediately with a second Knocker ending Mycat is not dead.)

But it was an American whom we must be credit with this:

Knock, Knock.
Who is there?
Deutschland who?
Deutschland is your land. Deutschland is my land.

Mrs Heisenberg (my wife) never tired of the Knocker that ends with "Sam and Janet Evening (you will find a stranger)." Sadly, I did not pay enough attention to her Knockers, and ironically she left me for another couple, Sam and Janet. It was in her memory, prompted by Observer's rare use of the singular "Desideratum," that I wrote the following:

Knock knock.
Who is there?
Desideratum who?
Desideratum leaves drift by my window ...

Which is funny because it's seasonal. Unfortunately, Bodog's negative vibes screwed up my timing and I was unable to complete the Knocker with the precision and certainty it required.

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Another Change/ Last Straw

Post by iamheisenberg » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:59 pm

iamheisenberg wrote:"There ain't nothin' more powerful than the odor of mendacity*... You can smell it. It smells like death."

* Replace "mendacity" with "impertinence."
I didn't post the above because, as low as my standards are, I would be embarrassed to be associated with that thread on cruise fucking critic.

Could it be that there is a correlation with the deterioration of the cruise line and the civility of those who sail it?

ellbon;54210162 wrote:This world is to funny.. i grew up in Newton Centre but went to private school in Newport RI. Moved to FL at 21 to finish college and moved to AVL 10 years ago. No wonder we are talking.

I have been to the roof top twice for lunch and once or twice for Sunset. stood drinking to watch it set over the market. I have eaten in their POSH dining room twice.

Unless the place open in the last 5 year a good chance i have been there. have you been to Cica 1886? been twice. also Rue du John and others.

I will put my email on the roll call. we so have to meet for a drink. are you on the full two weeks or just the short trip? i am single and at one time thought about living in Charleston. favorite city outside of Boston on East coast.
Travelingnonni99;54254722 wrote:Hi Robin, your red lettering is very hard on my eyes. A minor thing I know, but could you change your color? I can not read your post because of the color.
Travelingnonni99;54254833 wrote:Just reading all of this I wanted to comment, her post are always in neon red and it hurts my eyes so I simply do not read the post. I do not not have a dog in this fight so I have no opinion, but I must say that Viking has been just as bad or worse concerning our Cuba cruise next month. Still have not let us know about tours to Havana, we are waiting and considering canceling but, we want to make an informed decision. They are taking their sweet time and yes, we have flights to change as well.
ellbon;54255127 wrote:then you are missing out on good info on several boards for many years. you are the first one to eve complain about the color. nor neon red but fire engine red.

Cuba as far as I know all ships are going.
cruisr;54255345 wrote:The red bothers my eyes also. Afraid to mention it as I was afraid of getting flamed for making a comment.
calliopecruiser;54255459 wrote:Me too. Frankly, it even bothers me a little zooming past. I never mentioned it because these posts are mostly opinion and not important information (so I don't care if I don't read them).
Acker;54255517 wrote:It's not something I've ever mentioned but I skip all posts written in red too. I find it jarring, similar to posts written in all upper case.
ChansonDeLaMer;54255593 wrote:I too find them jarring. You make good contributions to this forum, but a black font would be helpful
nancygp;54255702 wrote:+1!!!

cruisr;54255735 wrote:Interesting how everyone was afraid to say something until someone was brave enough to comment on it.
Bodogbodog;54255984 wrote:I find the red annoying and hard to read - the cryptic English used also adds to making the post difficult to read
Why not just stick with the default colour and text?
Shorex;54256394 wrote:Sorry if this seems like piling on - but the red does distract from the content. Which is more important to you, the medium or the message?
FlyerTalker;54256442 wrote:How else can they make their personality stand out?

I will confess...I have been known to bold and size a bit when quoting. But then, we could color code our posts to get across our mood.

We could have Purple Prose
We could have Sunny Cheery News
We could have Mad at Headquarters
We could have Green as our Final Payments
We could have Blue as the Seas We Sail

Me, I'll stick with Black and White Reality.
ellbon;54257157 wrote:then you do not have to read my posts or emails. hopefully i will never meet any of you in person. i used red for years here and on all my emails.

you all are RUDE!!!
TAMPACRUZER;54257269 wrote:The red also bothers me. I'm curious. I have been reading cruise fucking critic for quite a few years and don't remember seeing the red. Maybe you posted on other boards than Crystal?
cruisr;54257611 wrote:I guess it's just me but if I read that many participants on a message board did not think posts in red, or any other color, or form, were difficult to read, I would stop doing that. I guess I'm considerate of others and take other opinions into account instead of being contrary.
JohnKen3;54257871 wrote:If you use the cruise fucking critic app on your phone or iPad, all the offending colours are transformed into black. I was confused about the comments posted above until I got onto the laptop.
orchestrapal;54258102 wrote:Agree...personally I skip all these posts since I actually cannot read the red type.
opso;54258343 wrote:Me too.
NJBelle;54258519 wrote:Add me to the readers who do not read the posts written in red. Maybe I will miss something great, but that is a chance I will have to take. Very hard to read and frankly annoying. Just so this is not taken to be a hit on the "lady in red", I will also say that there is a poster on this board who seems to have not learned to use capitalization or correct punctuation. She uses a lot of ",,,,,,," in her posts and it makes it hard to read. So, I just don't. So, maybe I miss out. But just thought I would say it is also annoying.

Signed, Frustrated Schoolmarm
Travelingnonni99;54258583 wrote:"Hi Robin, your red lettering is very hard on my eyes. A minor thing I know, but could you change your color? I can not read your post because of the color." This was my original note about the color on Ellbon's post. Seems I really made her angry , I am sorry she was offended but, it seems I was not the only person on the board that may have trouble with the red. I do not think anyone was rude.

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Crystal Symphony June Schedule

Post by iamheisenberg » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:28 am

2LoveToTravel wrote:Does anyone know where Crystal Symphony is June 17-25? Can't seem to find a cruise on schedule.
1lehrer wrote:It has been reported that it’s been chartered by a lifestyle group.
Shorex wrote:Ahem. A quick google search revealed this group. Wonder if there will be bridge and knitting lessons.
1lehrer wrote:In the nude, I presume and I guess no trouble getting models for the water color classes,Hahaha
1lehrer wrote:This is a question for our friends at Askcrystal, what if anything will Crystal be doing to sanitize Symphony, after the “Lifestyle “ Cruise the week before my departure of 6/24/2018,maybe new mattresses

I thank you in advance for your response,


Ps: the description of the cruise is very interesting. Which areas are going to be “Playrooms “?
Texas Tillie wrote:Do you think anything is going to happen on the mattresses that doesn't happen on "regular" cruises? Or, maybe the passengers on "regular" cruises aren't that frisky???
May B wrote:What a hoot. Thx for asking, Patty.

It's rhetorical, folks. Or anyway, I hope it is.
iamheisenberg wrote:Are you primarily concerned with natural bodily fluids or personal lubricants? The latter are generally water or silicon based *, and they will not stain the sheets, furniture or carpets, this I can assure you.

* Of course, also petroleum, but this is so 20th century.
ctjon wrote:Similar thread probably a year ago. There were similar concerns. People sitting nude on pool chairs etc.
Texas Tillie wrote:Wish we could have hidden microphones in the crew quarters, I'd love to hear what they have to say!
iamheisenberg wrote:Anyone unclothed in a common area will use a towel when seated or reclined. So, in effect, this is no different than fresh linen separating you from the mattress in your cabin.

Of course, over infinite time, just as a simian on a typewriter might recreate the entire works of Bill Shakespeare, so might an exposed buttocks come into contact with the same edge of a table or chair that you subsequently brush against during your travels.

C'est la vie. Pardon my French; such is life
Keith1010 wrote:As we say at our fitness classes. "TMI".
iamheisenberg wrote:Knock, knock.
Then gone.

Some people just can't stand knock, knock jokes.

And, by the way, Keith1010, you don't know what you are talking about! Trimethylindium, TMI or In(CH3)3, is a very dangerous crystalline (appropriately) which ignites spontaneously when exposed to air.

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Heads-Up : Thursday April 20th (Symphony & Serenity Re-imagination)

Post by iamheisenberg » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:46 pm

This was removed twice. After the first time, I thought perhaps I had not pressed the submit button, so I did it again.
iamheisenberg;55465067 wrote:Andy, can you tell me if the dispensary on Symphony stocks ophthalmic grade petroleum jelly?
Should I do it again? Is ophthalmic grade petroleum jelly a sensitive subject on cruise fucking critic?

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Tai Chi on Crystal Cruises

Post by iamheisenberg » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:59 am

iamheisenberg;55474097 wrote:It seems that one could easily poke someone else in the eye while practicing tai chi!

In that eventuality, does anyone know if the dispensary stores ophthalmic grade petroleum (petrolatum) jelly?

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Post by iamheisenberg » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:04 pm

cruise fucking critic wrote:Your membership could be awaiting moderation for one of the following reason:

- Nuisance Postings, Disruption of the Community ; You may be able to post in: Never
They won't have Heisenberg to kick around anymore ... unless, of course, I return as someone else.

And since I'm not really on the cruise train anymore, this might well be my last post on drib critic.

Auf Wiedersehen

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Re: This is The Title

Post by drib » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:56 pm

I don't know whether I should be offering condolences or congratulations. I suspect this is not the splash you were hoping for, though.

I certainly find no fault if you don't post here anymore either - at least you do it by choice - and apparently about 80 other members who don't post by choice.

I'm sure I will see you around when you are back in town.

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heisenberg, in memoriam

Post by drib » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:01 pm


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Re: This is The Title

Post by bodogbodog » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:14 am

Farewell Heisenberg - on both forums - sorry to see you go but I knew that jelly would get you into trouble
Another victim of the moderators....
That was a very definitive "Warning" you received
Oh well enjoy your forthcoming cruise - and try to leave Symphony is the same condition you found her - I want to enjoy myself on v.8218!

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Deleted posts

Post by drib » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Uncle D;55667612 wrote:I have noticed a lot of posts have been deleted recently. Can anyone explain why?
I asked our Host Dan but even that post was deleted.
drib;55669876 wrote:Pack up all you think or know,
About why some posts just got to go.
Bye, bye, Thready

Don't blame Host Dan, and don't blame me,
Just stay sweet, Uncle D.
Bye, bye, Thready

Management won't come right out and explain it,
No matter how many posters write to disdain it.

Although some posts you want to keep,
Just say goodnight and go to sleep.
Thready, bye bye!

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yippee ki-yay

Post by drib » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:03 pm

Bodogbodog;55686941 wrote:My experience and that of many others is quite different.

I guess some people choose to believe the on board booking consultant and leave it at that and are therefore disappointed and others look at all the options - and end up getting confirmed bookings on v.8218

It's been discussed ad nauseam on the roll call thread for this cruise @ fucking ... ?t=2275726
BWIVince;55689711 wrote:Actually, my agent confirmed the same thing before my cruise, so I know for sure that was the case, but thanks for the personal insult yet again. I think after 25 years in the travel industry I know how to understand availability. I was trying to book that cruise after the vast majority of people discussed it in that thread, and it was a case where I was just too late to the party... Which is fine — you snooze, you lose. I ended up with a cruise that fit my schedule better anyway, but it would have been nice to meet so many people on that sailing.

Bodogbodog;55689763 wrote:How you choose to interpret posts is entirely up to you - but I struggle to see a personal insult

Clearly you don't understand availability in this case - as many others have successfully booked on this cruise since it was "sold out"
Bodogbodog;55689776 wrote:It's not correct that there is "no way" the consultant would know about availability through an agent. Here's one scenario to consider (it's an actual example rather than hypothetical) - After telling a couple who enquired about availability on 8218 the onboard agent was told on one cruise about availability and insisted that wasn't possible - so I don't believe they are infallible, Needless to say I am aware the people who told them that are booked on v.8218

Interesting perspective - love your blind loyalty to your current TA in that you would sooner miss a cruise than book with a different agent. To me that is cutting of ones nose to spite ones self - as the only one missing out is you. But that's entirely your choice

Re Google search - I think it's pretty popular - so your claim that very few people go that route is without much foundation or support given the popularity of Google as a search engine

I'm glad you consider yourself "savvy" - but I'm not sure how you wouldn't know about availability given it has been discussed on the roll call thread and many members have commented on being able to book on the cruise after being told it was "sold out" and no wait list was possible
Keith1010;55689801 wrote:I am well aware of the availability because you have on several occasions mentioned on the roll call that you know of a TA who had rooms held.

Obviously I knew because I already mentioned it in my post to Vince. only a few minutes ago.

"Most of us including myself would never have known this except it has been mentioned on the roll call more then once by Bodog on the roll call and I believe on a thread that was on this board."

Certainly if you know a TA, maybe your own, who has rooms held on a voyage that is a leg up on most people, including those who are indeed savvy.

Bodogbodog;55689864 wrote:I don't know of anyone that I've ever met who would enjoy or even entertain waiting for a "few days" to be confirmed for a cruise - the logistics of getting things sorted at home and arranging travel to the port and flights from the destination at short notice would, for me anyway, take away any pleasure from the cruise

If it were me I'd be exploring all the options that I was aware of to get on a cruise I wanted to take
Keith1010;55689872 wrote:Yep I do know of some.

For them it was fine.

They wanted to be on board.

No flight required.

They are retired.

They are flexible.

Wouldn't work for me. But I don't live in driving distance of a cruse that Crystal offers. They do.


In one case they actually go their favorite room. Must have been the day for them to buy a lottery ticket.
BWIVince;55690414 wrote:Keith, I think what we have is a misunderstanding of terminology. “Sold Out” never takes into account rooms under contract, or no voyage would ever be sold out, as groups hold back rooms for concessions, hip, etc., all through an event. Even when a hotel has to walk guests, there are still available rooms in certain blocks. I was simply referrring to available rooms in unblocked inventory, of which there were none at that moment. If I had cared that much about the sailing I would have pursued other avenues to book it, but considering my August schedule (on top of my aversion to extreme heat) it just wasn’t worth joining another group or waitlisting. I will miss meeting you and Anne Marie, among many others though!

Terry, please re-read my original message, as I think you missed something. Nowhere did I claim the voyage was permanently sold out forever and that no one would ever be able to book it again. You asked who said the voyage was sold out, and I just pointed out that Crystal itself, via three different channels, said that to me at two points in time. Those two points are just a snapshot though, and obviously availability changes by the minute, so of course others will have a different experience. But this sailing has, at times, had no cabins available in freesale, unblocked inventory. Adding to that point, E and D wait lists were all three closed when’s I enquired, and required a C or higher category to waitlist, another strike for the voyage for my preferences.

Also Terry, on what planet is posting a direct reply to someone and addressing them with, “I guess some people...” followed by some condescending conclusion considered anything but an insult? You’ve done that to me three times recently, and a couple of others too I’ve noticed, and it’s very disrespectful.

Roland4;55691204 wrote:Not to mention very, very tiresome!

TAs always block group space, especially when they think a sailing will be popular, and "big dollar agents" get more than us "little guys". In VERY general terms, there are "deposited groups" where the agent/agency puts down money up front (but not the whole deposit) and gets to basically "sit on" the inventory. Because there is money on the file, those cabins are usually considered as sold. Then there are undeposited groups (definition obvious) where a number of spaces in different categories are held. At some point in the cycle for either type of group an inventory review is done by the line and unsold inventory "recalled" for general sale. So yes, a cruise CAN be sold out one day have cabins available the next, be sold out the next, etc, etc, etc.
Bodogbodog;55694438 wrote:Planet Earth

Read it again - it’s a factual statement

As I said how you interpret it is you choice
marienbad;55694483 wrote:A guess is not a factual statement.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums
Bodogbodog;55694492 wrote:As tiresome as some others repetitive and constant posts?

Simple answer is ignore my posts if you find them “tiresome”
Observer;55694693 wrote:Very good advice. I was going to ask why people bother to engage in threads that they find "tiresome." There are several posters (not including you) whose posts I simply ignore, because I know they will be tendentious or self-aggrandizing or illiterate -- in other words, tiresome.

Edited to add: Needless to say, there are many other posters (other, that is, from the tiresome ones, not from you!) who stimulate thought or from whom I have learned, and to them I am very grateful!
MalbecWine;55696210 wrote:Observer, I have enjoyed your comments and Bodog brings up some interesting comments that should not be dismissed.

In reality not one single person knows it all some of us who are not frequent posters have many cruises under our belt and we can share our experience. Keith has shared a lot but some of us have been cruising Crystal and other lines for many years longer. Don’t ask our age. LOL but still schleping along. Everyone on here can bring informative information to the table. Peace
Roland4;55696471 wrote:I skim the "repetitive and constant" posts, and I actually read your posts because they usually contain interesting information and ideas. It is the "personal" comments (and yes they do verge on insults from my North American perspective sometimes) that get tiresome.
May B;55696729 wrote:I believe we have long known that Bodog either

1-doesn't believe us when we say he is rude

2-doesn't care about being rude

3-wants to be rude

Roland4 may be correct in assessing it as a cultural thing; or it may be a personality thing.

There are many very helpful posters on the Crystal boards, and many different styles. Keep it up, gentlemen. We all benefit from your expertise. I say gentlemen, b/c of the most helpful few; many ladies have also enhanced the boards as well, of course.
Observer;55696838 wrote:As I was pondering this discussion, it occurred to me (not very originally, I reckon) that one person's "direct" talk may be another person's "rude."

Never confident in my own thoughts, I sought confirmation from the Oracle of Google and searched "rude vs direct."

The oracle responded with a number of hits.

People with lots of time on their hands who are interested in this topic might want to consult the oracle themselves.
Texas Tillie;55696937 wrote:I'll be direct, Mr. Dog is rude. That being said, I don't care as I'm not a member of his posse.

MalbecWine;55697209 wrote:Can we please stop these personal attacks this is why I have hesitated over the years to become a member. This site is about cruising and assisting each other. We can all agree to disagree in a nice way. Is that ok?
Bodogbodog;55697216 wrote:I didn't know we were in the Wild West - maybe its still the case in Texas?

Friends of the groom to the left and friends of the bride to the right?

If you don't like my posts just ignore them - or report them if you think they breach cruise fucking critic rules as I am not going anywhere
Texas Tillie;55697591 wrote:OK, I'm not a member of your entourage.

Who said that I don't like your posts? Your attitude provides a certain humor, even if it is rude. It's just that some of us are laughing at you, not with you!

Pity that Heisenberg isn't available to confuse "rude" and "nude."

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To be continued?

Post by bodogbodog » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:32 am

What a joke - personal insults seem to quite acceptable on CC now - depending on who is making them
Time will tell (OMG did I just utter those so often used words....)

Good to see some showing their true colours.

and thank you for Drib strip - it wont last long I'm sure

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Re: Deleted posts

Post by bodogbodog » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:35 am

drib wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Uncle D;55667612 wrote:I have noticed a lot of posts have been deleted recently. Can anyone explain why?
I asked our Host Dan but even that post was deleted.
drib;55669876 wrote:Pack up all you think or know,
About why some posts just got to go.
Bye, bye, Thready
I missed that one on CC - fancy it being deleted - how unusual....

Mustn't have anything that the faithful might find offensive....

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Re: Deleted posts

Post by drib » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:43 am

bodogbodog wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:35 am
I missed that one on CC - fancy it being deleted - how unusual....
'Twas Regent Forum

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Genting Hong Kong (Crystals parent company) narrows 2017 loss to US$244.3m

Post by drib » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:01 am

Too much for me to keep track, but I'll save a few recent highlights, below.
OceanPatter;55895222 wrote:Keep on posting, backofficecruising. While somewhat acerbic, your comments are refreshing because: 1) they’re candid, 2) they’re gutsy, and 3) they offer a nice counterpoint to the more saccharine perspectives on this board.

Diversity in opinions is good.

And thank you, calliopecruiser, for reinforcing that sentiment. You keep things honest.
MalbecWine;55895510 wrote:“they offer a nice counterpoint to the more saccharine perspectives on this board.”

You have said what I have wanted to say since this thread started. Thank you.
eroller;55895698 wrote:I agree 100%! So nice (and interesting) to read something besides the two or three cheerleaders that seem to dominate this board. Very nice to see another perspective and one that isn't sugar coated. A realist.
backofficecruising;55895767 wrote:Thank you, I just learned a new word from you (acerbic), yes, I can be blunt and sharp at times.

I just want everyone to know how I feel, did not try to offend anyone.
MalbecWine;55896044 wrote:For some of us it’s nice to have a refreshing view point. Please continue to post and also on any cruises you are taking in the future. Not all of us are Stepford wives.
backofficecruising;55896871 wrote:My next cruise is going to be with the Disney Cruise Line for the second time, now talking of success....Disney Cruise ticket price is at par with Crystal Cruises and I do look forward to a DCL Cruise more than a Crystal Cruises.

And yes, I understand they can be different products, but you know what? Not so different in terms of service, food and even luxury.

Of course there is the kids factor, but in terms of growth, there you have it, that is a properly run business with good American managment and a good place to send your money.

Disney Cruise Line it’s a good example of how to take the market and make it yours.

Unlike others.....🤗
MalbecWine;55897156 wrote:Disney certainly has a good business model in all their ventures. A very well run company that caters to adults and children. Crystal is sorely lacking shoreside for sure. So many issues with PCPC that have been going on for some time. If you want to be the best, everything should be top notch for a six star line. The onboard experience is still very good but shoreside needs a lot of work.

Seabourn is our other go to line and they seem to not have all the issues that Crystal has shoreside.
backofficecruising;55897397 wrote:Oh well, Crystal Shoreside team, don’t get me started.

Let’s put the Amsterdam office aside which is the one managing river.

To this day I don’t even know where ocean HQ is, LA or Miami?

If you ask them they are capable to point you to Malaysia or Hong Kong because they don’t even know what is going on around them.

All big egos trying to make a name for themselves, some of them already left after couple of years with the line whereas before they will retire with the line.

With Crystal, try to get a spa appointment before boarding, good luck, 100% you have to reconfirm everything once you are onboard, making everything redundant.

At least with Seabourn you can still call Seattle and get some service without having to repeat yourself like a broken record.

No doubt the onboard Crystal product is strong, but in my mind is because takes longer to destroy.

Soon, all the corporate mess and ambiguity will reach the onboard service...I think.

the hotel directors like Josef, Herbert, will soon be gone, and then, there you have it, let’s see who takes over with the same brand knowledge.

And even if they keep promoting and so on there is so much they can do.

Captains are ok to replace because at the end of the day their job is to navigate safely and do a little bit of public relations but Hotel Directors are something else.

Actually, I like that we discuss Disney because they have never bragged about growing crazy, they just do it.😍
FlyerTalker;55897566 wrote:Serious question: Are the long-term effects from the ER administration, and how they are impacting Crystal today and tomorrow, fair game for discussion? Not ER personally, but how her time at the helm has resulted in the Crystal product, and the Crystal situation, of today?

We can skip past the FFW* and AE** and other "memorable" interludes - but are we to just ignore the past ER years and imagine that it was like another Soviet-era Five Year Plan - disasterous but consigned to the black hole of rewritten history?

* = Flying Fjord Woman
**= All Exclusive
backofficecruising;55897670 wrote:I think so, EK, later EB, and later ER decisions are going to impact Crystal for years to come if not forever.

Unless of course Genting gives the new president 1Billion US $ to change things faster but that won’t happen because then is better to just buy another line.

Crystal lost 5 precious years and that is a lot of time to lose in this business.

Sometimes I wonder if that was a way for the Japanese to give the finger to the Chinese.

Let’s face it, the only winners so far is NYK, they built a brand, they run it for 25 years and they walked out with 550 million dollars net.

If you ask me, that is quiet nice.

Genting spent 550 million, they got a president that wasn’t chosen by them and they were push to spend more millions growing fat and without a clear direction.
eroller;55897703 wrote:I got married to my husband on a Disney cruise (DISNEY DREAM). It was fabulous and after over 125 cruises on just about every cruise line, Disney was the only cruise company I would trust with my marriage. That and we are also big Disney fans. We don't have kids so it probably seems odd we love Disney so much, but their attention to detail is second to none, and the ships are absolutely stunning. I often say they are wasted on the kids because the ships are just too nice for them to even notice. I also love they actually enforce their adult-only areas, which I guess on a ship filled with kids is very important. Sometimes we dine in Palo (adult only) every night and it's just wonderful. Remy is probably the best dining experience I've ever had at sea. Truly gourmet.

I've sailed with DCL six times now, and I look forward to more when the new LNG powered Disney ships come online. They will be fabulous I'm sure, slightly larger than the Dream Class but with the same amount of passengers. Now if only DCL would offer an adult only cruise! LOL Next on my radar is Virgin Voyages. I've already put down a deposit. The first ship will be adult-only, there will be no gimmicks (slides, rock climbing walls, etc), but Virgin promises to be something completely different. Even the cabins. I can't wait.

Back to Crystal, I think they are going in the right direction under the new leadership. Plans are being scaled back and they are taking a closer look at finances. They had no choice after the last leader. I remember how many on this board were so enamored with the previous leader and thought she was fantastic. Like she was a celebrity or something. Ridiculous. Now they are quiet about her. I give her credit for being ambitious and being somewhat successful with expanding the Crystal brand, but that is as far as I will go. The rest was completely off-putting.
BWIVince;55898337 wrote:How on earth is NYK a winner? Short of having a brand they were proud of, which is a warm fuzzy, they spent $800 million on ships that fully depreciated with service to Crystal (not counting almost as much in renovations to the same ships), lost money for twenty-something of those years of operation, and sold the company for a fraction of their investment. That’s not a bad amount to get for a brand with few assets, but considering they didn’t make money anywhere else in Crystal’s history that’s a horrible return on investment.

backofficecruising;55898517 wrote:Who says that NYK had loses for 20+ years? Popular culture? Rumors? or are those facts?

They created a brand from zero and sold for 550 million and they got to keep one ship (Asuka 2)

And for 20+ years they employed people and run a good, healthy business, sure, some years they had loses that they wiped out with their logistic business but that is their business altogether.
BWIVince;55899001 wrote:Crystal’s management and NYK’s financial reports said so, and said so clearly. It’s a publicly held company, and even with the cruise operations bundled together the reports frequently threw Crystal or both lines jointly under the bus. It certainly was clear Asuka may or may not be profitable on a given year, but it wasn’t like Asuka was to blame for the divisions financial problems any more than Crystal was overall.

If you look back on threads here you’ll find dozens of threads talking about Crystal’s financial losses for years. I honestly can’t remember a year prior to 2011 that they DID post a profit, but I’m sure there must have been at least one. The absolute worst period was 2003-2005, when overexpansion resulted in mass layoffs and downsizing, that that’s forgiving the 90’s which were considered a startup period.

Selling a company for $550 million when you poured 4+ times that into it (after profits) to prop it up over the years is NOT a win.

backofficecruising;55899615 wrote:I don’t have all the details but I seriously doubt that they lost money year after year, why would they build ships in 1995 and in 2005 if they were losing money continuosly?

What I do recall is that they went from a 3 ship to a 2 ship operation around 05-06 and no one lost their job, in fact they did a good job keeping all the onboard staff, and they held the 07 financial meltdown quiet well.

Again, massive layoffs? Do you have any concrete details on this?

NYK or any other Japanese company for that matter don’t have the mentality of laying off people when things are difficult, is quiet the opposite, and it’s in their culture.
nancygp;55899735 wrote:You seem to have quite a bit of insight regarding crystal over the years. Did you ever work for crystal?

backofficecruising;55899775 wrote:No, but I have sailed with Crystal since 1992, we go back almost 26 years now and I have/had close relationships.

If I ever worked for Crystal I would have post an AMA on Reddit
BWIVince;55899903 wrote:Well you can seriously doubt it all you like, but since I AM well versed on the details and was sailing those years (as are many others here), they most certainly did proceed with an expansion that failed. As a matter of fact, when it started becoming clear that the business plan didn’t support the new inventory and cost structure, the former president was canned and the CFO was promoted to that role to try to instill some financial discipline and try to turn things around. Ultimately he’s the one who had to make the tough call on the downsizing after trying several Ways to make it work, but it became clear their inventory problem wasn’t just short term residue from 9/11.

I think you’re remembering this incorrectly, with all due respect. The whole point in transferring Harmony was to reduce the inventory they needed to sell and cut costs of staffing nd operating, which was bleeding them dry fast. Why would they continue to employ an entire ships worth of crew and HQ back office support positions that they didn’t need? I think you’re remembering that not everyone from Harmony lost their job, because they were able to displace others in the organization and I’m sure there were some volunteers, but I can assure you that officers, contract crew, and HQ employees alike saw their jobs go away when Crystal cut their operation by a third.

backofficecruising;55899979 wrote:what is contract crew? You mean onboard staff such waiters, stewards etc?
BWIVince;55900024 wrote:Correct... Different departments are staffed differently, but by that I mean mostly the hotel staff — dining room, restaurant, bar and housekeeping non-officers. I assume the same worked for the deck (operational) crew, but I don’t have firsthand knowledge of how their downsizing worked the way the customer-facing positions were cut.

backofficecruising;55900065 wrote:Virgin Voyages is definetly a good product to follow, their leadership have an outstanding record, Tom McAlpin is going to do it right, and if you like DCL you will like Virgin I’m sure, I’m also thinking if to take one of the first cruises.

Yes, the celebrity, she was loaned a toy to play with and she basically thought it was hers.

Next that needs to happen is a purge at a corporate level to remove all her friends, like in politics.

Then Crystal can breathe again and sail into the sunrise.
cruisr;55900071 wrote:I have to ask @backofficecruising. Whatever can Edie have personally done to you? Is is actually Edie or Crystal that you think has wronged you. You seem to have a lot of anger towards both.

As an aside, Vince is correct. NYK lost money in owning Crystal. The financials support that. This continued with just about all the Presidents, including Greg, who came from Finance, not Sales and Marketing.
backofficecruising;55900114 wrote:Ok, but in theory those positions are laid off contract after contract, nothing guarantees their return.

Crystal HQ is maybe of 100+ employees, so massive lay offs could only be of maybe 10-20-30 max?

I just want to point out on the word “massive”, sure, someone must have lost their job with restructuring the company but I don’t think it was massive.
Keith1010;55900410 wrote:Vince you are correct in what you have said including NYK financials and those of Crystal Cruises when NYK owned them and in the challenges related to reduced levels of staffing at sea and on land.

I do remember this very well and as you correctly noted it was also discussed on these boards over the years.

However, I did a few Google searches to pull up years that Crystal had losses. Most of the information is available on the internet. Some of us used to read the NYK annual report and it would have one or two pages on the cruise line part of the business and would take about the financial issues including losses.

Crystal did have many years of financial loss.

Positions were lost with the consolidation from three to two ships. Some contracts were not renewed and some decided not to return. The advantage of contracts is you don't call it a layoff. In addition some of the higher level officers did work cooperatively with one another changing up the amount of work time by working less time at sea to minimize some of the impact. Some positions were eliminated on land and also openings not backfilled.

A few years following the 2008 crash even NYK had a couple of years of very bad performance and they lost money for one or two years. Oh I remember those threads that between their losses and the losses of Crystal some would that meant the end of Crystal Cruises and maybe even NYK. Of course very trying times. Many years before that it was 9/11 eventually followed by the tech collapse.

Cutbacks were made in many areas. Initially they were ones that were transparent to guests on the ship so as not to impact performance. Eventually some of the cost cutting measures were more obvious to the guests. Other cruise lines had to take similar approaches as did many businesses on land.

A few positions on the ships were eliminated but you can't eliminate too many as that would clearly impact service, etc. In time positions at headquarters were eliminated in conjunction with consolidating departments. And the positions eliminated were at all levels.
And once again several open positions were not backfilled on land.

Many years ago cuts started to be made. You remember the cuts made to the Crystal Society Program. I want to say that was around 2004. We were still relatively new to Crystal but you would think the sky was falling down with the comments on the CC board and by many Crystal Society Members who we met on the cruises following this change. This one was discussed on board for a few years. It used to be that the program included many gifts, and on board credit on almost every cruise associated with the program. That was also back in the day that you could get certain perks with say American Express and a consortium if you were booked with a consortium and also used say the American Express Card.

Crystal is not alone. There was a time that people questioned if Silversea would make it. In fact, we looked at taking a Silversea cruise in 2005. But chose not to when they began to take a ship out of a time from their fleet well after schedules were published. They said for dry dock but I remember many of the regular Silvesea cruisers said that it was to save money because they were taking them out of service for something like six months at a time. We chose to book Seabourn instead.

Seabourn was bleeding money up until just a few years ago when they eliminated the Miami office. When that happened many of the Seabourn regulars were upset. They no longer could get responses from the Seattle office and things like shore excursions took the HAL approach which is you pay for them if you book them at home at the time of the booking and no longer on the ship if you book in advance.

Back to Crystal Cruises a label that was given to the CFO who was elevated to President of Crystal Cruises not too long after he assumed this position was was "bean counter" because his focus was on the financials and making cuts. He was not popular after making those changes to the Crystal Society Program. I can't post some of the other words that Crystal Society Members said after the program was significantly modified. Vince as you correctly noted he was elevated with the focus on the financials.

Back to NYK those last few years they were very effective at not making decisions or slow rolling decisions by taking months and sometimes years to make them. Another method of saving money without saying such. You don't have to say "no". You just keep asking more and more questions or say you need time to "study" it.

Vince your time as a customer goes back further then mine does and you have a terrific memory.

Simple searches on this board will bring up people talking about issues surrounding cutbacks, financial challenges for 13 or more years. Of course the same would apply to all cruise lines I can think of that have been around for a very long time.

I am reminded that most businesses face a lot of challenges when it comes to the financials and certainly those in the hospitably arena have been impacted from a variety of items mentioned.

Vince your background in these areas serve you well and I appreciate the thoroughness of your posts. We had similar challenges in the tech arena but clearly hospitality services has their own set of challenges more unique to that industry.

backofficecruising;55900423 wrote:I agree NYK must have had their loses of course but no one loses money 25 years straight, not even someone who wants to lose money.

Edie (to me) is an insecure human being who makes up for that by being coercive.

All she did for Crystal is walk around like a celebrity, trying to explain people what travel should mean to you.

Have you ever shake hands, exchange words and immediately feel uneasy with anyone? That is her to me, I won’t get into the details but she does not deserve to be in this industry at all (in my mind and is my opinion and is based on facts) others like Ponant will think differently.

She “navigates” well in the industry because the industry is already flawed or let’s say under regulated so everything is valid.

She was lucky some Japanese people trusted her but believe me you she would have never passed the filters of a well set organization.

The decision of hiring her was soooo poor that at times I wonder if the Japanese did this as a good bye present.

And for the record, you are asking me and setting me on fire 🔥 I was happy just commenting about her business decisions and not her persona.
ijkh;55900412 wrote:agree. Member joined cc this month? With this amount of venom? Makes me wonder
backofficecruising;55900475 wrote:What makes you wonder? I already said I signed up to spill some venom....

You don’t need to wonder, let me tell you straight out.
FlyerTalker;55900645 wrote:Of takes years of being on CC and thousands of posts before you can really be considered to know anything.
calliopecruiser;55900915 wrote:Wonder about what?

Seriously, I'm asking. You make it sound as if you're wondering if those opinions are true or not. Do you think that poster is an animated bot?
Roland4;55900933 wrote:Everyone starts at Post#1, but most don't come to a board with the expressed intent to be venomous! The amount of venom and bile this poster has dumped on the past president, including their Post #2 which was seriously offensive and was deleted by the moderators, is now verging on character assassination and is totally uncalled for.
BWIVince;55901267 wrote:I agree the word massive is subjective, but the company constricted by a third. To ME, that’s massive. But you’re right, they could have shrunk by more.

If you re-read my prior messages I was actually careful to include BOTH layoffs and job losses for that reason. An unrenewed contract, to someone who had applied for another or intended to apply for another and held status to expect renewal, is a job loss but not a layoff.

Keith and Nancy, thanks, I was starting to think I fell into some alternate reality last night. My memory is ok, but I have to confess again that I have a massive archive of books and cruise memobelia that I refer back to regularly to check myself. As I admitted last week, I can’t rely on my memory as much as I used to. New info regularly tries to battle for space in there every day.

backofficecruising;55901498 wrote:In a previous post you said : do not feed the troll and here you are feeding me again.

You add bile to the venom, oh well, I will post again in 5 years to let you know how much I enjoyed the chocolates onboard Endeavor.

Oh wait, I don’t think I will do that.

Enjoy the world cruise 🚢
Whatever happened to the thread starter?

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Re: Genting Hong Kong (Crystals parent company) narrows 2017 loss to US$244.3m

Post by drib » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:58 am

It was getting long, above, so I'll start, below:
ijkh;55901733 wrote:I suspect a disgruntled former low level flunky at Crystal. Sounds to me more like that than a former cruiser. JMO
cruisr;55901805 wrote:@backofficecruising. I will state again every one has the right to post here and the mods can (and it seems did) delete or modify posts.

It just seems you are losing a lot of credibility as you seem to be blinded by some sort of crusade against Edie and Crystal. I see you list your location as Miami. Perhaps you worked for Edie in the MIA office. I cannot for the life of me imagine what a person or company can do to you to elicit your comments. Did they take all your money and then not let you sail? Were you thrown off the ship? You have made this personal and if you are indeed, a cruiser, not a disgruntled ex employee, making it personal serves no purpose. You will not disclose what Edie/Crystal has done regarding what Crystal has done to you, which is your right. It’s our right to guess that you are a disgruntled employee.
backofficecruising;55901821 wrote:wow, if that is how you view the people onboard? as servants

very nice
backofficecruising;55902061 wrote:Yes of course, everyone have the right to guess anything they want.

I’m a cruiser and not a disgruntled ex employee, with that said, it is few posters here who bring the lady back to the table.

Yes, its true that I see her name and I can get somewhat emotional but my only intention was to link her background and attitude towards Genting financial loses, that’s all.

If you must know, lines I have sailed with:

Seabourn - Legend formerly Royal Viking
Crystal - Harmony/Symphony/Esprit and 2 world cruise segments onboard Serenity.
DCL - Magic
Princess - Diamond
and I have never sailed with Viking but I would like to because I have visited one of the ships as I think they are very nice.

on the lighter side of events, I do fly many airliners and stay in many hotels too and I don’t post reviews about them like I don’t do with cruises, but I like you guys, and I might do more often.

As I said, I was here with the only purpose to link Edie to Crystal business failures which are few, that’s all. And not everything is related at looking at financial data published on line.
backofficecruising;55902164 wrote:I find what you said here, very, very offensive.
If you cruise and view people as low level humans you should definetly stay in your cage.
It’s likely they don’t even know about this forum and I can tell you that won’t be a bad idea that CC makes a different space here just for them.
And no, I’m not a butler, or a stewardess or a waiter or a receptionist or dancer or a shop attendant or a captain or an employee of any kind, if I was, I would tell you and that’s it.

Remember that cruising is a choice, it is not a necessity at all, like flying for example.

and some of the people onboard are in a precarious position having to see people like you treating them as low level flunkyes.

I see it is now less than 13 pages again, so the moderators are once again hard-at-work making cruise fucking critic safe for the average schmoe.

MalbecWine;55902673 wrote:Who cares when the person joined. It seems the writer seems to know a lot about Crystal’s history and giving his or her view. Some of us welcome a different view point and some of us are open to listening and discussion is good but really this thread is either a lecture on business and lengthy at that adnasueam. It’s the same posters going back and forth like reading War And Peace. Boring IMHO.

Most of us don’t care as long as we are happy with the product and service delivery. Most on this and other luxury boards really don’t care about the business end. Most of us want to hear about the cruising experience. This is not business critic. It is cruise fucking critic.
FlyerTalker;55903005 wrote:And when bad business decisions negatively impact the product and service delivery, thus a reduced cruising experience?

Or when good business decisions allow for an enhanced experience for customers?

IMO, they are inexorably intertwined.
MalbecWine;55903060 wrote:I agree with all you said, but most of us will move on to other luxury lines if the experience is depreciated. As long as any product is good for us and not just cruising we will be loyal. Once it slips we just walk with our wallet or purse. I think most normal people would do the same.
peapod2;55903241 wrote:Long(ish)-time appreciator of the Crystal product here, and continue to be so still. However, I do think the question above is a fair one, the answers to some of which might even be potentially useful and instructive to current management. With that in mind, I'll take the risk of volunteering a few thoughts of my own regarding what I think were some needlessly negative changes (i.e. mistakes) made during the most recent past management period (and which I hope will at some point soon be corrected):

1. Shore Excursion Department: What happened? Up until just a couple of years or so ago, excursion offerings were almost always fully ready to go and posted online by at least 6 months out. That is so NOT the case anymore and IMO is now causing excessive difficulty and frustration for passengers trying to plan ahead for their on-shore activities. I find this particularly ironic in light of the new reservation and cancellation policies that have recently been announced for 2020 and beyond. It seems reasonable to me that, if final payment (and newly introduced and sizable cancellation/administration fees) are going to kick in at 4, 5 & 6 months before sailing date, then surely the cruise line ought to hold up its own end of the bargain by being ready to accurately and fairly completely inform passengers of what its shore excursion offerings are going to be within at least that same time frame. If more personnel now need to be hired, or rehired, in order to once again be able to accomplish this, then so be it and please proceed.

2. Itineraries: I don't want to make this post too long and also realize how subjective this category can be, so I'll just say I think there's some room for improvement over what have been the last couple of years' offerings.
MalbecWine;55903447 wrote:PeaPod, I forgot about that issue and glad you brought it up. Crystal wants our money sooner but we can’t book excursions. Crystal wants more money up front than give us a decent and up to date excursion list that we can at least preliminary book. Crystal wants more money booking and we get less and now administrative penalties.

A big turn off for many of us.
BWIVince;55903510 wrote:What a fascinating point. History requires long, boring posts to explain details, facts and nuances, but bigoted, salacious allegations only take a few words to cast, especially if one never backs them up with those “boring” facts.

MalbecWine;55903736 wrote:Exactly who are you calling bigoted? That’s a pretty harsh statement. This thread has run its course for me. So continue please as you wish.
BWIVince;55903874 wrote:Not you... I was referring to backofficecruising’s allogations of Edie’s upbringing based on her heritage. I’ve never seen you say anything bigoted and apologize I didn’t make that clearer.

backofficecruising;55904080 wrote:Here we go again......

I have come to notice this thread is divided into two groups, the ones that have something interesting to say and the ones that have nothing interesting to say.

The ones that have an interesting opinion and the ones that always have the same opinion.

Earlier, a very offensive post in how some of you view onboard staff “as servants” has been deleted, now that is/was offensive

You want to stop the Edie talk, then just stop, if you are sooooo terribly shocked, don’t read it or make any opinion, revising your posts you seem to be mentioning her more than I do.

You are calling me narrow minded but I’m actually open minded and I think you are passive aggressive.

Yes, I get it, you are Edie’s fan but you are not Edie’s fan, you are not too sure what side of the fence you want to be, one thing is for sure, you can’t have both feet in two different places.

We can only agree to disagree and that we both miss the turndown linen on the floor.
backofficecruising;55904099 wrote:It run its course for me a while back as well
ClefsDor;55904156 wrote:And let me guess you think you belong in the former category, but you would be wrong!
backofficecruising;55904174 wrote:I belong in the one you think is right for you.
MalbecWine;55904225 wrote:I hardly think you are narrow minded. You are giving us/me food for thought and I thank you.
backofficecruising;55904284 wrote:Ah, sorry but you are wrong.
Crystal under NYK had a dedicated recruitment and training center in the Philippines owned by NYK.
Since Genting took over they use a contractor that works for many other cruise lines such RCCL, Princess, Celebrity, etc, for Filipino crew that is.

In Norway they have a dedicated recruitment agency that also contracts to other agencies around the world.
You can ask the South Africans, Brazilians, Mexicans,
In short, they use contractors.

So here is another fact for you that seem to know everything.
MalbecWine;55904362 wrote:Did someone really refer to crew members as servants? I guess I missed that post before it was deleted and it rightly should have been. Using the word servant is disgusting and draconian and hurtful. We treat crew like our equal as people doing a great job and we treat everyone with respect just like family.
backofficecruising;55904423 wrote:Yes, someone here called me a “flankey” low level onboard employee, and while I get it was maybe directly pointed at me, and wrong in the first place, you know, it is not far as to how they think in reality... a world cruiser never the less.
backofficecruising;55904464 wrote:Flunkey....was the word used, in other words, a low level servant.
MalbecWine;55904667 wrote:Disgusting and unacceptable. We have heard dismissive comments as well from a few guests. It is really a shame that a few people act like this. Kindness will get you much further. We have seen and heard it all land and sea.

As the old saying goes, you get more bees with honey than vinegar.
ClefsDor;55904992 wrote:I never professed to "know everything" but I do know that it is pointless and a waste of my time to enter into further dialogue with someone who is both arrogant and rude.
MalbecWine;55905073 wrote:I disagree, I don’t find the poster arrogant and rude nor do I find other frequent posters arrogant or rude. They are simply expressing opinions...take it or leave it. I don’t agree with all the comments but that is just me but Keith, Vince and BackOffice are entitled to express what they know or think. Why the need to silence any of them?

Rude, I don’t think so. JMHO
backofficecruising;55905326 wrote:Right, because the below quote from you is NOT arrogant and rude.

Originally posted by ClefsDor And let me guess you think you belong in the former category, but you would be wrong!
backofficecruising;55905383 wrote:😊 I won’t express opinions for a while until my next cruise experience because I see teeth coming out from my computer.

But I have to say it has been a fun weekend.

I will be tuned.
MalbecWine;55905483 wrote:No teeth from me😀
calliopecruiser;55906073 wrote:
MalbecWine;55905073 wrote: And I think some of their expressed opinions are arrogant and rude.

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Post by drib » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:35 pm

:music: Making your way on a cruise today takes everything you've got.
Checking it out, on cruise fucking critic, sure does help a lot.

Wouldn't you like to have a say?

Sometimes you want to post ...

Where everybody can call you names,
and everybody plays semantic games.
You wanna post where you can see
your words all go up in flames.
You wanna post where people can call you names.

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but wait there's more!

Post by drib » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:01 am

Now at 14 pages, soon to be less (or none at all).
ClefsDor;55906453 wrote:I can't be bothered looking into this properly but just from a quick look back over your posts here are a few gems - so yes, I stand by my comment that you are rude and arrogant:

….to then realize she was a ruffian (ER)

…. hers (ER) are the manners of a ruffian

I have come to notice this thread is divided into two groups, the ones that have something interesting to say and the ones that have nothing interesting to say.

I’m actually open minded and I think you are passive aggressive.

So here is another fact for you that seem to know everything.

I am more than happy to hear other peoples opinions and experiences, whether they reflect my thoughts or not - that is after all the basis of any forum. What I have an issue with is when people are condescending and rude to other posters or use derogatory terms to describe people. End of discussion for me - I'll leave it to the moderators to decide if they wish to take any action.
Texas Tillie;55906471 wrote:Well, if this isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black!


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Re: This is The Title

Post by bodogbodog » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:25 am

and will anyone get banned from CC? - I suspect so but only those who don't agree with the "King" - although we know how the Hosts really support free speech and open debate on CC...
Can't have anyone saying negative things about Crystal now can we - or even the previous CEO who some still seem to swoon over...must be looking for a freebie on Ponant now

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Re: Genting Hong Kong (Crystals parent company) narrows 2017 loss to US$244.3m

Post by drib » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:51 am

... and we are done.

So, even though you are no longer posting, Bodog, your post count, including your count of threads started, just changed.

Was backofficecruising around long enough to deserved a spot in my in memoriam graphic? I don't want to be disrespectful of the others.

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